Episode 42
042: Overcoming Grief with Yoga and Meditation w/ Mae Yoshikawa
My goodness, are you in for a treat with today's episode. I talked with Mae Yoshikawa, who is a mother, a writer, a blogger, a yoga instructor, a yogi specifically. And she is just such a beautiful soul, and you'll get to capture the essence of who she is so quickly. We talked for over an hour and 20 minutes in this episode here, and we totally could have gone on. And we are going to have a part two, because there's so much more to expand upon.
We go into how she's gone through trials and tribulations and very traumatic events throughout her early years that got her to where she is right now. And not only has she expanded upon that, but she has really been able to want, like go out and deliver the message with other people of what they can do when they go inward and they connect in with their heart to understanding who they are, be okay with the quietness and to really find that safe place.
What it means to be in a safe space and a safe place, not just physically, but within your mind, within your body and to fully embody that. And she goes through and she describes in beautiful detail and how she experienced that with the differences in her pregnancies with from her first pregnancy to her second pregnancy and how that really evolved. And you could feel, you can just feel the essence of who she is and how she embodied that in just describing it throughout her pregnancy. So even though when you hear this episode, you're going to hear a lot about that talking about as a mom and her laboring. But this applies to life.
So, I'm so excited for you to dive in so you can capture these tools, these nuggets, these gems, on what you can do to apply, find the safety and the security within your mind, within your heart, and to come into heart-brain coherence for you to be able to just live peacefully and a life full of vigor and also just absolute satisfaction and joy and inner knowing and confidence of who you are, regardless of outside judgments, cultural subjections and anything else that might be limiting you to becoming the expansive person that you really are.
You can find Mae here:
Website: https://maey.live/mae-guest
Transcript
[Dr. Natalie]: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Igniting Consciousness Podcast, where
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: we talk all things in relation to expanding your mind, your awareness and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: your consciousness of who you are, what your purpose is here in life, how
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to bring it forward, how to help wake up other people, and how to live your
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: best self. I'm joined today with a beautiful human being, a beautiful woman
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that is A. across the world in Japan right now as we're recording on completely
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: different time zones, which is what the beauty of the online world serves
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and provides for us, May Yoshikawa. And she is a mother, a writer, a yoga, I should
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: say like a yogi. You probably could label yourself as a yogi, right? And
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: she has just such. massive amount of information that she can be sharing with
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: us today in relation to how she's found herself into her work, what she's doing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: today, how she started expanding her mind and unraveling and getting into this
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: world of expanding consciousness and what that means to her and how it can relate
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to you and share messages probably with other women but other people in general,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: how they can start to... elevate themselves and become better versions of themselves
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and truly enjoy heaven here on earth. May, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted to connect with you.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Me too. And I just love how you've reached out and actually reached out on Instagram.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And it's just perfect, perfect timing for me because I'm like, such a, anybody
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: who knows I do human design readings, like on the side as well. And being a manifestor,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I'm just so interested in going out, initiating and making things happen. And
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: on this end, you actually initiated and came out to me and it must've been responding
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to me putting out in the vortex out in the field that I was ready to talk to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: some other. other women and other like-minded women in the world around yoga,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: actually I put out there, and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Wow.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: around like physical practices and very healthfully minded people. So just
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: beautiful how it worked out, perfect timing, and then now we're connecting.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And so May, I just want you to share, and you've mentioned that you wanted
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to share topics with people that you think are really crucial for people to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: know about. So let's get into that and like, What is it that you want people
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to know about?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: goodness. I mean, you know, you've been on this road studying, learning and living
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a greater awareness, a greater consciousness. It's like we can dive into this from so many
Speaker:[MAE Y]: different angles. I guess I'll begin by telling you a little bit about myself. I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: am I like to say that I look Japanese, I speak American English, but I found my heart
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in South India, because my so my mom is half American and half Japanese my mom was
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I should say and I grew up here in Tokyo Japan going to international schools.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So I'm very fluent in English, but culturally I'm still Somewhat Japanese and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: kind of a blend. I've actually never lived outside of Japan for very long And growing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: up here there is this imbalance of being a mixed breed in one of the most homogeneous
Speaker:[MAE Y]: cultures of our time. And the sense of searching for myself, you know, a sense
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of belonging, and who I am. And I think I had that in my heart as a deep longing, even
Speaker:[MAE Y]: since I was a child. I started yoga when I was 21. And that came from a dark tunnel.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: because my mom developed a very rare neurological disease. Symptoms started when
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I was 17 and she was only 47. It was so rare that it took two whole years and nine
Speaker:[MAE Y]: different university hospitals to diagnose. And when they finally did, they said, this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is an atypical Alzheimer type dementia that was eating a better brain. And from that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: point, through the initial three years, four years, five years, and onwards, her condition
Speaker:[MAE Y]: would deteriorate in a way where she would lose memory, long-term memory, short-term
Speaker:[MAE Y]: memory, three-dimensional recognition. She might not be able to look me in the eyes
Speaker:[MAE Y]: when she talks to me, or she might mistake me for my sister. So I developed these
Speaker:[MAE Y]: huge questions about what is human consciousness? Who is my mom if she can't see
Speaker:[MAE Y]: me or remember my name? Does she recognize my being? You know, I had such an ache with
Speaker:[MAE Y]: these big questions in my mind, but I was also so young, right? That it made me
Speaker:[MAE Y]: sick. It made me depressed. I was an insomniac and it was just eating up at my own
Speaker:[MAE Y]: health in a terrible way. Until finally I was like, okay, I need to start taking care
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of my own health or it's not just... going to be my mom who's very sick. And I went
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to doctors that they would typically prescribe me antidepressants and sleeping pills,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: which can definitely be an option for some. But for me, I felt like it really wasn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: getting at the root cause, you know? So I kept searching. I tried acupuncture, chiropractors.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And eventually I found yoga and the simplicity of uniting the movement of my breath
Speaker:[MAE Y]: with the movement of my body and the use of focused conscious awareness to do that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: changed my life. It helped me to sleep. It helped me to slowly begin to take the reins
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of the thoughts in my mind. scattered, hurt, and just shouting, why God, why? happening
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to me? Why is this happening to us? And as you can imagine, these aren't empowering
Speaker:[MAE Y]: thoughts, right? These are the very thoughts that were making me more sick. So
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it took me years. But gradually, yoga and through meditation, I learned to slowly
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and gently shift the narrative of my mind, shift the thoughts, so that it could
Speaker:[MAE Y]: begin to work for me. and not against me. So that's kind of the gist of it. But I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: used these applications of conscious awareness in having a beautiful home birth.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And also, later on in my life, I touch upon this in my book. My husband, I lost him
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to a sudden traffic accident about five years ago. So I went through a very tremendous
Speaker:[MAE Y]: experience of grief in my 30s. And I just don't think I would have survived these
Speaker:[MAE Y]: experiences of my life. Had I not developed the awareness to say, that's just a thought.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: That's just a thought. That's just the thought, you know, like when something
Speaker:[MAE Y]: really negative eats up at you. So there's so much I want to share with you and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: with your audience. But I guess my message is really about taking hold of your
Speaker:[MAE Y]: conscious awareness of the mental narrative and your mindset and that you ultimately have
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the power to do that, that it's in your hands.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm. And that, I mean, that right there, this is where we'll start, that the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: tragedy that can happen in life with loved ones, I mean, from your mom to the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: loss of a husband, of a partner that you have two boys, three boys?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Two boys.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Two boys with, and how old are your kids now?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: They are 14 and 6.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: 14 and six. Wow, I mean, so much life. I mean, we know 14 years with a child,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: let alone the years prior to with your husband and being able to come over
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: on the other side, not just for you, but for your children at the same time.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Right.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be that beacon of light of, okay, I'm gonna, you know, and a lot of times
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: we will stand up or like, what will we do for our kids? Even if it's not for
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: us a lot of times, right? So. I want to rewind this a bit for you to start
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to unravel the whole conversation around consciousness is so expansive and the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: whole conversation around meditation is so expansive because there's so many different
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: types of meditation and so many people that are listening in are like, well,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I don't know how to meditate. I don't know how to do it the right way. So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: let's just start with that, with these awarenesses that you had after these
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: tragic situations and that you've had in your life, you've taken, there's been
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: a lot of work to lead up to you being able to, to not just handle it, but,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: but to be able to process it and to be able to, to continue on and, and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: enjoy life continuing on joy, joyously, right? So how did you find your way
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: into meditation? I know in the earlier in the episode, you talked about You've
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: been like, you've been in Japan majority of your life, but yet you also made
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it to India at some point in time, which definitely shows up in your profile.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Cause of course I pulled your human design and you have a one three in your
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: profile, uh, in human design. And that three is definitely what allowed you
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be able to like, want to get out. You want to experience other culture,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you know, for the purpose of yoga, what we've realized. So let's, uh, let's
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: talk about that of how, how did you find yourself? And when did you find yourself
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: in India? And then how did you get into meditation and then into yoga? What
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: was, what does that look like?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, that's just the beauty of it, right? Because who would have ever thought
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that through the agony of the slow loss of the mother that I knew and the life
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that I knew, that from that dark place, I would reach for something like anything that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: could really save me. And at the time I was referring to health. And at the time
Speaker:[MAE Y]: health meant to me, health of the body. But the moment I got on the yoga mat, and since
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the first day my teacher said, you know, move your body in this way, synchronously
Speaker:[MAE Y]: with your breath, which made me aware of just how out of touch I was with every inhale
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and every exhale. And it's my own breath, right? Nobody else could do it for me. And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: yet I was so out of touch with it. I mean, I knew since day one that I had a long
Speaker:[MAE Y]: way to go. But the simplicity of that not only brought me back to my body, but it
Speaker:[MAE Y]: also taught me experientially that health is not only of the body. You don't have
Speaker:[MAE Y]: health of the body. Unless you're a whole person that's body and mind and soul
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and the mind part comes with a lot of thinking thoughts and emotions. Um, and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the way that I feel it in my experience, it's kind of like paving the way to your soul
Speaker:[MAE Y]: almost because your soul is always there. It's, it's always present with you.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: You're just not, sometimes you don't feel it so close to you because. Your mind
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is so noisy. Your emotions are so scattered. So hence meditation helps you to calm the waters
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of your mind, to have a sense of this grounded oneness with yourself. Now, I definitely
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was a person who wasn't going to walk into a meditation class. I mean, I was like,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I think I was in my third year of university, my school friends are just partying and, you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: know, going out to clubs and drinking their beer, whatever. And in the meantime,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you know, there was a little bit of that for me too. But I was also I mean, I always
Speaker:[MAE Y]: had my mom on my mind. So it was kind of torturous, this dichotomy. And I still wasn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in a place where I was going to walk into a meditation class, though, but I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: walk into a yoga class for fitness of my body. And that's what I did. But I learned
Speaker:[MAE Y]: quickly that yoga is almost like meditation and movement, because it requires your conscious
Speaker:[MAE Y]: awareness with your body movement. Yeah, so that was that's I mean, and then I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: guess after the yoga class, my teacher would nudge us to just sit for five minutes.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and then sometimes for 10 minutes, and then sometimes for 20 minutes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Do they call it Shavasana? Was that the language that was used? Because that's
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: typical yoga classes. It's like, all right, Shavasana at the end. I might be
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: saying it wrong, so excuse me, all the yogis in the world there. But when
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you literally are like, okay, now I'm not moving my body, I am laying down
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and I'm surrendering, and I'm just allowing myself to process and be at peace,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and in the nothingness.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes, yes. So in the tradition of yoga that I'm trained in, which is Ashtanga yoga,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: which is actually very rigorous and athletic, as far as the different styles of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: yoga goes, they don't typically call it Shavasana. But it's, it's the same thing.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It's just lying down and taking rest and allowing your body to absorb all of the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: energy that you've just mobilized throughout
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: generated.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: your system.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But my teacher also had this pranayama hour, like three times a week after the morning
Speaker:[MAE Y]: yoga classes. And pranayama is a breathing class. But usually with these breathing classes,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you don't just do the breathing exercises. You do the breathing exercises and then you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: sit a little. Again, to gain awareness around and absorb the energy that you're moving
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in your body. in your system.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, wow. I just like, I have to interject on this because two things. Well,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: one thing, like you just said it earlier, like you were using yoga for the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: physical exercise of it. But what you're getting to is that yoga is so much
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: more than just the exercise. The yoga actually was founded on. on the space
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of what it's doing for your mind and the calming of the mind and sinking up
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and like lowering the sympathetic and increasing the parasympathetic to get more
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: in that rest, healing and recovery to shut down the chattering mind that's oh
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so loud all the time and how what you're just getting to right there with
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that breath. what your teacher clearly was doing, because I've been studying
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: this, nostril breathing versus the typical breathing, which gets you in a
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: sympathetic state. And yes, you can get an altered consciousness, and people
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: can literally almost feel like they're doing plant medicine through the breathing,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: right? But it's actually putting you in a near-death experience whenever you
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: do that rapid type of breathing, because your body feels like it's dying. But
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: the breath that you're describing is that Okay, we're coming back to like slow
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: down the pace and we're like getting that parasympathetic activation happening
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: in the body because majority of human beings are always in sympathetic dominance
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: all the time, which is what creates chaos and dis-eases, right? And symptoms and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: chaos, like expand, expand on that, right? So yeah, so I just wanted to like
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: interject talking about that, that is clearly
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Absolutely.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: very healing type of. breath and connectedness to bring your mind like get
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: out of your head and into your heart or out of your
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: head and into your body right
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes. And so the simple, super simplified takeaway for your listeners is that equanimity
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of mind follows equanimity of breath. So anytime during your day, when you notice
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that you're panting because you're hurried, or maybe you're sighing because you're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: sad, but you're not inhaling, or like, you know, maybe you're inhaling a lot, and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: then you're exhaling. super short, whatever it is, if you just take a moment to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pause and notice and inhale and exhale in an in an equalized manner. So let the inhalation
Speaker:[MAE Y]: be as long, strong, and steady as your exhalation and immediately you'll begin to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: calm down your mind.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Hmm, that's getting that parasympathetic activation. Like, I always tell people, like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: our bodies are so hardwired. Be like, oh, it's stress o'clock somewhere
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: right now. So your body is
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Hmm.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: just going to find a reason to get stressed out and worried, or, oh, rushed,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: or I have to do this, or have to find something to worry about. And I'm putting
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: air quotes around that. And exactly what you're saying about doing that type of
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: breathing, is there a name for that type of breathing, what you're describing,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: where you're. you're equalizing the amount that the number and the amount of
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: the inhale is the same on the exhale. So you can make sure that you can lower
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that frantic state, lower that anxiety and bring up more of the. Like calm,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: cool, collected, focused, and actually stop that anxious wind up. Like, is
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: there a name for that type of breathing you're describing?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: know that there is, but as far as I know, my teacher would just call it even breathing.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, there
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: we go.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: as we practice it, yeah, but as we practice it, though, in the context of yoga,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it got more and more intense. For example, initially, we would practice four counts in,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and four counts out. And then we would practice eight counts in, and then eight counts
Speaker:[MAE Y]: out. And then eventually you can extend that to 16. and 16. And then
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Wow,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if you get
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I have
Speaker:[MAE Y]: really
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: not done
Speaker:[MAE Y]: practiced
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: 16.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: at, yeah, and then if you really practice calming your mind down, it's almost like you're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a deep sea diver, right? You need to really shut down your mind so that your body
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and mind don't require oxygen, because you're really slowing down the breath, you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: can work it to 32. And then even eventually to 64. Yeah, which is like I'm talking about
Speaker:[MAE Y]: extreme practices of yoga now. And this is after like, at least after 1012 years
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of practice, but I'm saying it's possible to, to guide your, your body and your nervous
Speaker:[MAE Y]: system to that kind of calmness. Again.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Have you, whenever you get in those extended, and this is like my curiosity,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and I know my other people that are like deep in the nervous system world,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: because I have a lot of other chiropractors that listen to this as well.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Whenever you're doing the extensive breaths, like when you're saying going like
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: 16 plus and definitely getting into the 64 range, do you feel out of your
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: body? Or do you feel like, what would you say? Like, do you feel kind of like
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you're in an altered state
Speaker:[MAE Y]: That's really
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of awareness?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: interesting you question that. That's really interesting because...
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Personally, like in terms of my personal experience, I would say that I lose a sense
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of my body. So I wouldn't even say that I'm out of my body because I'm not even
Speaker:[MAE Y]: feeling my body as something to be out of. I'm only feeling the pure consciousness.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I'm in the pure consciousness. I am the pure consciousness. So... It's not that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the body is in or out, that I'm in or out of the body or that the body exists
Speaker:[MAE Y]: or doesn't exist. It's just that it doesn't matter because you're just in a pure
Speaker:[MAE Y]: consciousness state. That's how I sense it.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah, no, I was just intrigued because I'm just literally visualizing because
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: there's so many different practices of where Joe Dispenza's work and also with
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like Greg Braid and like Bruce Lipton and all these different ways of being
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: able to manifest. That's like the magic. Like you can get in these magical
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: states whenever you get the heck out of this primitive brain that's always in
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: survival mode. What do I have to do to survive? And then You can, there's
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: many different practices where you can, when you get out of your head into
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: your heart is like a big thing. We always talk about getting into heart brain
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: coherence,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: your breath. I mean, I've also heard is like, obviously breath is life, right?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And so. If you're, you can use your breath to get in those altered states
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: as well. Um, to also train your mind to not have to be so, um, logical and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so on, rather than allowing more of the, um, Back, like retraining and reprogramming
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: your subconscious really. So I'm like getting into like nerdy neurological
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: stuff, but you can do that all with the breath. And when you, when you, when
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you're describing this, it's just getting me all like excited about
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, I want to touch upon something though, because I'm all into this kind of nerdy
Speaker:[MAE Y]: stuff too. But when you say though, and I know that I've been there, and I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: imagine that maybe some of your listeners are there too, is that when you go after it,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the state, like when you go after the altered state, or even like the heart-brain
Speaker:[MAE Y]: coherence, or living from your heart, when you go after it, and you're being a go-getter
Speaker:[MAE Y]: about it, okay, when you approach the whole topic and the whole practice with the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: mindset of, it's another thing I wanna take on my to-do list. You haven't left the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: conditioned state of mind that is actually very mental still, right? You haven't let go
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of the mind because you're still using the mind to want to get out of it, which is
Speaker:[MAE Y]: actually quite a paradox. And you keep presenting yourself with a lot of resistance.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: You'll never quite get there. You'll always find yourself trying. It took me freaking
Speaker:[MAE Y]: years to realize this Dr. Natalie, but I'm trying to like kind of condense it
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for your listeners here is there will come a point. Okay. So I don't know for me
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for the first 10 years, at least maybe 12 years, I used my mind wanting to get better.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: My mind wanting to be more calm. My mind wanting to be more peaceful, wanting to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: detox, wanting to clear out all this gunk out of my nervous system from conditioned
Speaker:[MAE Y]: past. I used that will to freaking get up in the morning, every morning, whatever,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: three, 3.30, practice for two hours, breathe for an hour, chant for an hour, meditate
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for an hour, whatever, and then eat a certain way, you know, go to South India,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like do these things. I have been highly, highly disciplined in my life, like especially
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for the first like 12, 15 years of my life and then with a couple of pregnancies
Speaker:[MAE Y]: kitty stuff in the queen, right? But I've been super disciplined.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, just no big deal. Just a couple of pregnancies, which is like a rite
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of passage for a woman. And she goes through the birth portal, you know, no
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: big deal. Like, no, amazing. Like mompreneur
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: through and through over here.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And then there will come a point, if, is it if, as you're practicing, as you're proceeding
Speaker:[MAE Y]: on your path, there will come a point where you realize that your own mindset of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: wanting to get there is setting up your own barrier. And so in the ancient yogic
Speaker:[MAE Y]: texts, right, I think it was the Upanishads or something, there is this verse that I just,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: have always been so fascinated with about the metaphor they use is of a funeral
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pyre. And there's a fire there. And you take a piece of wood, like a wooden stick,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: right? And you use it to poke the fire and to poke the fire and to poke the fire,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to work the thing and to work the thing and to work the thing, to keep the fire going,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to get there. But finally. when the fire is warm enough and when done all it is
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that you need to do, finally your last last, I'll put that in air quotes, is to take
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the stick you're holding and to throw it and to release it into the fire itself.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So the very will that you've used to get yourself there, you've got to be willing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to let that go in the end,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Surrender.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if that makes any sense.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah!
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that's that surrender that everyone, it's such a catchphrase in the world of consciousness
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and yes, meditation and let it be, let thy be, don't stop being a human doing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and be a human being and let it go, or it could be like, Frozen is playing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: all the time. I have a two-year-old or near two-year-old, so she's listening to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Frozen all the time. Let it go, let it go, and it's like,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I'm going to go to bed.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: let it go. And to trust that and to also, you like, I'm just, I'm smiling
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: here, so you're like, oh, no big deal. Like it just took like, you know,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: after 10 years
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of me doing this, like such a generator profile style right there, cause
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you're a pure generator. And so in human design, pure generators, when they're
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: onto something, you go and you go and you go and you go. And you're like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: yeah, just 10 years of my life. Or as someone like myself, I'm like. 10 years
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of your life of doing this, like you would be amongst the masters. You're a
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: part of a master of your craft with that, going after these various essences
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and topics for this long of a period of time. And for you, I'm sure you're
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like, you still don't know enough. There's still so much more to gather and there's
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: still so much more to experience and dive deeper with, right?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: That's why I consider myself a perpetual student of life. And I love to keep myself
Speaker:[MAE Y]: there. I love to be a student more than anything else. I love the process of learning
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and expanding. And I'm sure that in the past, when I really look back on, I guess
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I've been practicing yoga now for like 22 years or something. I feel like the first...
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Maybe the first year I felt like a total beginner and then the second year I felt
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like I was kind of getting better and then by the end of the second year My teacher
Speaker:[MAE Y]: asked me to teach if I wanted to teach and stuff and that was about the point where
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I Thought I knew the most which is such a joke because that's like 20 years ago
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and 20 years later I don't I guess sort of chucked the measurements. You know,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I just I don't bother Wondering or thinking about If I'm better than or less than
Speaker:[MAE Y]: or if I'm more evolved or less evolved or if I'm closer to something or not I just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I just don't go there because I don't I understand that such measurements that such
Speaker:[MAE Y]: judgments and dichotomies only come with the mind and I just I love and appreciate
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like you said living in your heart which is a timeless space and if you can just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: accept the fact that You don't need your measuring cups there, you know, then you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: would just be so much more happy. And I think that's my message. Like, you can be
Speaker:[MAE Y]: happy.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh my gosh, but there's so much more to share with that too, right?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I'm sorry.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: You, when did you go to India? I've like, I'm just like, at what point did
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you go to India? And like, when you're saying with your teacher, like, because
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you kind of really brought yoga more prominent in Japan because it's not, it
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: wasn't as prominent at that time, right? So you were kind of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Right.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: on the fringe, right? You were on the fringe with doing this yoga thing and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: bringing it into Japan. And so talk to me about that. There had to be so much
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: trust and so much faith and so much knowingness, maybe a lot of some scaredness
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and worry and fear, but not enough to stop you from going to India and then now
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: bringing this back. And next thing you know, you're on the cover of this
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yogini magazine in Japan on however of 42 covers. And so let's start talking about
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that. What made you decide to go to India and then start caring for the work
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you do today?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So when I first started yoga, yoga really wasn't a thing in Japan yet. So there
Speaker:[MAE Y]: were only three yoga studios in all of Tokyo metropolitan area, which is like a
Speaker:[MAE Y]: joke. But I started going to a place that was relatively close to where I lived
Speaker:[MAE Y]: so that I could continue to practice. Because remember, I was like in the dumps when
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I started. Okay, I was in bad shape, not just physically, but emotionally and like.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Mentally, I was in bad shape. So I knew that if I wanted to be healthy, I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: have to somewhat continue something So I started going there, but my teacher Once
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a year would take a month-long hiatus to go to India for his own practice and study
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So as I developed this daily morning practice, I mean I practically lived in the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: studio I was there five days a week if not six days a week, okay? So if my teacher
Speaker:[MAE Y]: wasn't there for a whole month, I would notice. I would not only notice, I felt slightly
Speaker:[MAE Y]: abandoned, okay?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It got me wondering where my teacher was going. And then, you know, my human design,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: somewhat of a geek. So I geeked out on who my teacher's teacher is. You know, what's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: this lineage? What's this tradition? And then I developed this idea of, oh, I felt
Speaker:[MAE Y]: kind of like drinking at the source of the fountain. If he's going upstream and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: drinking up there, I want to go upstream. I'm not just going to like wait downstream
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for the stuff to trickle down. So I was definitely nervous at first. Um, but I,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: fortunately I speak and understand English. And then eventually I got really good
Speaker:[MAE Y]: at speaking and understanding Indian English, which is like a thing of itself.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, okay. Okay.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Just because their accents are so heavy. You know, you have to kind of interpret them.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But anyway, so in 2003, my Indian teacher was doing a world tour. And so I caught him
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for, I think, for like a week or two during the world tour. And then the following
Speaker:[MAE Y]: year in 2004, I started going to South India.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Wow. You said, wait, 2004, you went to where, you said?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: South India.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: South India, okay. So you in different areas of India then. So you weren't
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: just in one place. You traveled around a little bit then.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Well, initially I was only going to this founding school of Ashtanga Yoga in South
Speaker:[MAE Y]: India. That's where I started in 2004 and that's where I actually kept going. I went
Speaker:[MAE Y]: every year for some 13 years and I actually kept a house there. I would stay there
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for like about a total of maybe three or four months per year every year for the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: first 13 years, which also means that I spent both of my pregnancies there. And with
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my first born son, even after I had the baby, by the time he was six years old
Speaker:[MAE Y]: or five years old, he had been going to India every summer. So he grew up, like
Speaker:[MAE Y]: his baby food was Indian food because he grew up on that stuff.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh my gosh, that is a whole
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: nother element that I'm just like, how did you do that? That I have a three
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: in my profile in human design and so does my husband. He is actually a one
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: three similar to how your profile is. And we have this mass interest in wanting
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be able to like go to another culture and spend at least a month there and,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and then some, and to really immerse ourselves in the culture and, you know,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: with purpose and everything else there. But you did that with a baby and it
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: was just you at the time, right? Just you and the baby and then eventually two
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: babies. And I mean, so you obviously had a whole nother family there too, to be
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: spending that amount of time and you said you had a home there. So I can't
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: even imagine like, how did that come together? And is that, was that just part
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of the magic of the manifestation of the house came in, did you hunt for it?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Like, how did that happen?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I, at that point, I wouldn't even say that there was no idea of like manifesting
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it or even intending for some of these chapters to unfold in my life. Again, I just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: go back to how I had started from such a desperate place of needing to get better.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Cause like I was in the shits, remember? So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I needed this, I needed this to get better. I needed this to feel better. And when
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I started to feel a little better. it sparked something in me. I started to wonder,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: well, how healthy can I be? Like how balanced I can be? How pure can I polish this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: nervous system? So I actually kind of like went off on a whole other spectrum
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to somewhat of like a monkhood almost. You know, I mean, I was eating like pure raw,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like 90% raw organic in my twenties. and this is before my first pregnancy. And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I was just, like I said, I would wake up at 2.50 in the morning to have like a silent
Speaker:[MAE Y]: bath or shower, silent mantra chanting, and then anywhere between 90 minutes to two
Speaker:[MAE Y]: hours and 20 minutes of asana practice, followed by maybe 10 minutes of pranayama,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: followed by 40 minutes of meditation, followed by like puja and like... mantra chanting,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: which is like a Hindu form of worship. But for me, it was, again, a preparation to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: meditation. So I immersed my life, I immersed myself in this practice. I didn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like every morning, I would wake up and not talk to anybody for like the first
Speaker:[MAE Y]: five hours of my life, because I spent it in silence. I spent it in beingness.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Wow.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And so that was a whole phase of my life. But also in my mid to late 20s, I had
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my first marriage and my first husband was also a yoga practitioner. So we were very
Speaker:[MAE Y]: much in that lifestyle together. And actually he was another person, aside from
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my first teacher, who really encouraged me to teach yoga because I actually... wasn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: interested in teaching. I was interested in learning. I was always interested in learning.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But he just saw in me that one day I would make a great teacher and he really
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pushed me actually to start teaching. And then I did. I started teaching. I started
Speaker:[MAE Y]: teaching when I felt like I was so blessed. to get to go to India and to learn
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and study at the feet of the guru and to have these experiences that were transforming
Speaker:[MAE Y]: me. And at a certain point, I felt like I would be totally energetically constipated
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if I didn't start sharing what I was learning. So that's how I started sharing.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I started traveling around different parts of Japan and sharing Ashtanga yoga and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: everything that was changing my life about food and diet and awareness. And then,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And were you still raw at this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: time?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: What?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Cause I'm, I'm definitely plant-based. So, I mean, anybody in the world of consciousness
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: truly knows if they just shut out their ego and all the, all the brainwashing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of like eating animals and blah, this other stuff. You truly know to clean and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: purify your vessel, you have to eat life. Life gives life giving food, meaning
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: not dead food, high frequency foods, meaning plants. Right.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Right. So I had experimented with different like eating modalities throughout my 20s. And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: then the first couple of times that I tried raw foods, I failed miserably because
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the winters in Japan, it was too cold. And then I wasn't getting quality plant foods.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But when I when I sorted out what I wasn't getting right about getting the right
Speaker:[MAE Y]: quality of food and like the soil quality and the freshness and pure water, all of these
Speaker:[MAE Y]: elements, when I figured it all out, it started working for me. I mean, my body
Speaker:[MAE Y]: used to metabolize so fast that I would get a scar on my hand and it would heal itself
Speaker:[MAE Y]: without scabbing. I just needed like a few hours and my skin would regenerate and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it would kind of fall off and shed like snake skin. My friends at the time, used
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to call me my bestie at the time said, May, you're like too healthy, it's sick. That's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what she said to me.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And you're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And then
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like...
Speaker:[MAE Y]: they used to call me, yeah, they used to call me Claire from that, what's that old
Speaker:[MAE Y]: TV series? There's like this cheerleader girl who regenerates herself. I can't even
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: remember what the series was called.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh my gosh, no, I can't think of it, but it's like there's little pieces
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: starting to come in right here. Yeah, I don't know, but somebody will know.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: One of the listeners are gonna be like, we know what you're talking about.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, so they um, but I also realized in my late 20s that I was also living in a
Speaker:[MAE Y]: bubble, right? Because you can't live and function in modern society waking up at
Speaker:[MAE Y]: 2 50am and living like a monk, you kind of
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: for five
Speaker:[MAE Y]: segregate
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: hours
Speaker:[MAE Y]: yourself.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: before talking to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: anybody. I'm like,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: right.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: my
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: husband is like,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: yeah. So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: as soon as I wake up, I'm talking right away. So I'm like, oh, you did it, is
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: mass amount of discipline, mass amount of discipline.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, and I would do that in India, too. I don't think I could do that as much
Speaker:[MAE Y]: here in Japan. I mean, I could do it somewhat, but not as much as the way that I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: would dive deep into it in India. But yeah, I also recognized that I was kind of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in this bubble. And so my first pregnancy helped me to rebalance that segregation between
Speaker:[MAE Y]: me and society. As soon as I was pregnant with the first one, I had to. been eating raw
Speaker:[MAE Y]: organic for like two years. But as soon as I got pregnant, I really wanted to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: eat potatoes and rice. Now potatoes and rice are two things you don't eat without
Speaker:[MAE Y]: cooking. So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Good.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I just followed my natural body's intuition and I started eating potatoes and rice again
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and I would cook them. So throughout my pregnancy, I never went, I never needed
Speaker:[MAE Y]: meat. I don't, I didn't even need seafood and But as I was still plant-based but I started
Speaker:[MAE Y]: eating cooked foods again and And then the first child I had at a birthing center
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Which was a great experience. It was I had I was able to have a natural unmedicated
Speaker:[MAE Y]: birth, but oh my god Dr. Natalie, let me tell you it was so Painful. Okay, so
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Well,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: first
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: birthed
Speaker:[MAE Y]: birth
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: a bowling ball.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But here's the thing, you know the thing you were saying earlier about how people
Speaker:[MAE Y]: have this mindset of do, doing, they don't know how to come into relaxation, how
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to come into parasympathetic, how to let go. So that was me, like, on steroids in
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my 20s. Okay, I was so do, like get shit done, high achiever,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yep.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you know, run, a lone wolf, you know, let me do my thing. Okay, and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Type
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I, and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: A
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: personality. I am too.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Um,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I get
Speaker:[MAE Y]: now...
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it. I'm so getting it.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I've actually changed quite a bit, but in my 20s, that's how I was. So when I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: approached birth, you know, I studied about it. I read about it. And I even read
Speaker:[MAE Y]: somewhat about pain free and orgasmic births and stuff. But when I came across that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: information, it just didn't quite bring a bell for me because my mom, when I was a
Speaker:[MAE Y]: teenager and my mom had four kids, I'm the last of four kids in my family and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my mom. after I got my period in my teens, said to me, May, congratulations, now
Speaker:[MAE Y]: your body is able, and one day you're gonna have your own babies too. But when the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: day comes and you get your contractions, and it hurt very much, and it hurts so much,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and it hurts so much that you wanna go to the hospital, wait, wait for it to hurt
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a- hundred times more before you go to the hospital. That was what my mom said
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to me. And y'all, I wasn't aware of it then, but clearly it had left a subconscious
Speaker:[MAE Y]: impression on my mind because I couldn't shake off the idea, the thought that pain would,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that giving birth would be super painful. So that was kind of how I walked in. Even though
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I had developed so much awareness and so much, I was so in tune with my body through
Speaker:[MAE Y]: seven years of daily yoga practice by them and eating raw and I was like clean
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and super, super fit. Mentally and also physically, my core was super strong.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: As I prepared for birthing at the birthing center, I hadn't yet learned and nobody had
Speaker:[MAE Y]: taught me. Not even my midwife had quite guided me to this place of total surrender.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I walked into this birth and I just had this really, really painful experience.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I felt like I was ripped off from my core and I felt like, excuse me, I felt like,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: um, I just, I just felt so torn apart. You know, I felt like Why? How can God do this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to women? This isn't how it's supposed to be. So it took me, you know, weeks and months
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to recover. But eventually, of course, my body could recover and get back to like
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a full-on, super athletic, rigorous yoga practice. And I never knew that I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: have another child, especially because I was divorced from my first husband shortly
Speaker:[MAE Y]: after my son was born. So I was a single parent for a while. But I have this thought
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in the back of my mind that birthing, I just didn't think it was supposed to be that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: painful. And I thought, you know, if I ever do this again, I think I can do this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: better the next time. So, you know, years later in my 30s, I remarried. And then
Speaker:[MAE Y]: we decided that we wanted another baby and I was blessed with another pregnancy. So
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the second time around, I prepared myself in a whole different way. I prepared
Speaker:[MAE Y]: myself for surrender so that I don't need to be barged open. So that's my, the second
Speaker:[MAE Y]: birth is my home story.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, so what was part of that preparation? Because exactly what you're saying,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: most people are like, I'm physically ready. Well, I say most people, people that
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: are prepared and they're like, physically ready. And they're like, Okay, I
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: know this idea of an orgasmic birth, or, you know, the whole check, check
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: the boxes. But there's a different level of mental preparation that made the shift
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: for you. to be able to allow
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Absolutely.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that surrender and to like, yeah, it's still painful, but to like, go through
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that birth portal and like have a totally different look on it. So what did
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that look like for you? Like, let's say, how did you prepare?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, that's so awesome. And actually, from my second birth, I had an almost all pain
Speaker:[MAE Y]: free birth. It wasn't orgasmic, but it was almost all pain free. So I could tell
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you a little bit about that. And early in my second pregnancy, right, and by this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: time, my first son is eight years old, I'm super happily remarried, and my husband
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is very in tune. not just with me, but also with the baby and with our growing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: family. And so we, we had this basis, this foundation of understanding, which I want
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to bring up because I feel like birthing is so whole that you don't want to be in this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like isolated, I'm the one that's doing this mindset. You know, it's coming through
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you, but you're doing it together. You're doing it together with the force of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: life. You're doing it together with the baby, perhaps with your partner. Hopefully
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you have that relationship of trust with your partner because that would support
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you hugely in your mindset. and in your nervous system to know that you have that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: backup, right? Um, if you have siblings or whatever, your relationship with your midwife,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: your doula, your doctor, just so that you have this basis of trust, because it's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: so imperative that the woman who is birthing can feel safe, because if you don't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: feel safe, you can't relax.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: No you can't.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And you can't. So. Early in my pregnancy, the second time around, I was actually about
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to go for a clinic birth, but my husband was the one who noticed that he was like, I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: don't think you know, is this stressing you out like something about how the nurses
Speaker:[MAE Y]: were scrutinizing my scores, I was super healthy. I was there was nothing wrong
Speaker:[MAE Y]: with me. But but if you know, I was like two pounds over the bell curve, they had
Speaker:[MAE Y]: something to say about it. And I just wasn't really vibing with it. And so my husband
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was the one who was quick to point out, hey, is this stressing you out? Because
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if it is, we should change the birthing place. And at the time, I was 27 weeks in.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And in Japan, with the birthing regulations, 28 weeks is the cutoff line for you to change
Speaker:[MAE Y]: birthing places if you have a change of mind, or if you're like going home to whatever
Speaker:[MAE Y]: region you're from or whatever.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: bow.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Um, but thanks to my husband's keen observation, I say, you're right. You know,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I might add also that the reason why I was just going to go for the clinic birth
Speaker:[MAE Y]: anyway, was because I knew that my husband had paid the down payment for the clinic
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it's,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: they don't reimburse.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: oh gosh, and look at that. Like you're like, I just gotta push through because
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: we made this down payment.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that's what I thought and that's what I said to my husband, but my husband, blessed
Speaker:[MAE Y]: soul, was like, hey, I know how much money I've paid and I know how much we're going
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to lose because they're not going to pay us back. But he also said, if any of this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is stressing you out, I don't want this to stress you out. I don't want this to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: stress the baby out. We should change it. So I said to him, you know, I've done all
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my research and I thought this was the best place. And if it's not, honey, we're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: going to end up doing this at home. And he said, that's okay, baby, let's do this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: at home. So I know, right? It's so amazing. So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Ugh.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I found a midwife that would be willing to come to her house. I started working with
Speaker:[MAE Y]: her and I started, I totally switched gears. And I just knew that I not only needed
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to ignore what my mom said about how painful it would be this time. but that I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: also need to repaint the landscape of my psyche. It wasn't gonna be enough just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to eliminate the negative. I needed new positive images, ideas that would help
Speaker:[MAE Y]: prepare me for the opening so I'm not just going in blind. So I started reading,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: studying, watching documentaries about these like home births and ecstatic births
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and stuff. But I also had this weird little sense of watching other women give birth.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I felt a little bit like it was risky for me because when you're watching these documentaries
Speaker:[MAE Y]: or whatever footage on YouTube or something, you don't really know how it's going to end
Speaker:[MAE Y]: until you get to the end. So I didn't want to expose myself to the risk of that.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Unless someone's like recommending you something you don't really know and mind
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you I was like well into my second trimester by then So then I got this brilliant
Speaker:[MAE Y]: idea of why don't I just watch wild animals? So every night on YouTube, I would
Speaker:[MAE Y]: watch beautiful wild animals giving birth one night. It was the gazelle Another
Speaker:[MAE Y]: night. It was the horse giraffe cat cow dog Buffalo zebra you name it. I've seen
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it And so I totally, I mean, and they're amazing. They're just like. They all go into
Speaker:[MAE Y]: this zone of safety and relaxation. And like, you should have saved the giraffe.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It was like so tall and it still just plopped the baby out. You know, like it was
Speaker:[MAE Y]: effortless. But I watched so many of these animals until finally one night it dawned
Speaker:[MAE Y]: upon me. If they can do it, so can I, right?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Amen to that.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Only human beings scream in resistance, and we don't need to.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I hate that right there. Scream in resistance. I'm going to take that. Like.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Literally because we've been hardwired and programmed and lovingly. So,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you know, moms and whomever else passed on and friends and. Darn media, like
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: not lovingly is like, this is what it takes. You need to be in stirrups and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: your feet need to be up here and you need to have like poke and prodded
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and you know, Ivy said in here and like, Oh, it's a process. Oh, you're not,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: baby's not ready to come right now. Let's go ahead and give you some pitocin
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and the whole cascade effect starts happening and you're not in your bio.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Like we are. Mammals you watched mammal, mammal birth babies, how they do it,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: unhindered, untouched, and how they were able to do it because they have this
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: divine wisdom inside of them knowing exactly what to do and they are able
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be embodying that experience. Like they didn't, they weren't taking coaching
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: from anybody on how to drop a
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: baby giraffe or you know what I mean? So go on, go on.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes, and then these animals, right? They don't, they can't talk. They don't have
Speaker:[MAE Y]: words, you know, God knows, God only knows what kind of thoughts they have, or even
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if they have thoughts or not. But what I can tell you from having observed a whole
Speaker:[MAE Y]: herd of these beings in their
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: No pun
Speaker:[MAE Y]: moment,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: intended,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: um,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: a herd.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: they, there was a common thread. Okay, there were a few things that I felt like they
Speaker:[MAE Y]: were all doing. Okay, I can tell you a few of these. One, utmost fundamental, they
Speaker:[MAE Y]: ensure that they are in a safe environment. And by that, I don't just mean like security
Speaker:[MAE Y]: safe. I mean that the mama can feel safe. Okay. So it doesn't matter if you're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in an Fancy place or if you're in a small unit or if you're in a bright or dark
Speaker:[MAE Y]: place or whatever as long as the mom Feels safe in that environment. Okay, so that's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: some want the first Ultimate thing that I sensed from watching these videos The
Speaker:[MAE Y]: second is that in that safety they move freely none of them were like rigid or
Speaker:[MAE Y]: fixed in their body and behavior. There is a relaxation and a flow to the way that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: they would move their bodies and even their breath because you can hear them. It's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: almost like they're moaning, almost not unlike the way a woman might open herself
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to her lover in bed.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mmm, yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: You know, there is this freeness and openness, you know. And then lastly, the voice
Speaker:[MAE Y]: part. Like again, not unlike the moments you spend in bed, making the baby, when it
Speaker:[MAE Y]: comes time to birth the baby, there was this openness, this ah, this moaning. There
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was no
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Ah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: eee, ah, you know? It's always this ah, this openness. And you can tell that their
Speaker:[MAE Y]: jaw and their neck and their body is not tensed up. There is this sense of release
Speaker:[MAE Y]: happening. So I used those footages to kind of repaint the landscape of my mind.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And then I also, and then of course, like by this time I had been teaching yoga
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and meditation and leading guided shavasanas are like my forte. And I had been doing this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: for like, I don't know, 16 years at that point. And then I was like, my God, why
Speaker:[MAE Y]: didn't I ever think about doing this to myself?
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm-hmm.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So. headset on like an athlete training for the Olympics because you know when your
Speaker:[MAE Y]: time comes you only get one go at it just zone into that feeling, practice when
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the contractions come. Every time the wave comes, the more I allow, the more I release.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: The stronger the wave, the more intense the pressure, the bigger I am, the more I open.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that's how I practice. And that's exactly how it was for me in the moments of birth.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that is just like, I get like chill bumps thinking about it because yes,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: we're talking all about birth right now. And for the listeners are like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I'm past that stage of life. I mean, you're way past that stage of life
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: right now. I mean, you could still birth right now if you wanted to, but
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: this applies to life, I'm sure you took this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes!
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: learning to life moving forward of like, how
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: can you ride the wave and flow with the wave and like, Yes, let's just start
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to move into that as we get closer. I knew we were going to go like this and have
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so much to talk about in this episode. So I know we're going to have to continue
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and do a part two and then shift this. But this is a great coming up and leading
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: up to as you're describing us with birth because this applies to how you
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: can surrender and ride the wave in life and rewire those subconscious patternings
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that were led to believe that it had to be another way. It had to be so contracted,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so tight, so stiff, so,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: urgh, so aggressive when it doesn't have to be that way.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes. So I had to retrain my relationship to pain. Okay, so this is, and I'm using again,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the metaphor of my birth, but I believe that this can apply to other forms of pain,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: whether physical or mental or even emotional. Okay, so when pain, when you feel
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pain, or in my case, like as the contractions as the intensified pressures were just pushing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: against me. The human conditioned response is to cringe, is to tighten up, tense up and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: resist.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Now, the thing that's different about birth, because with a lot of pain, you're so
Speaker:[MAE Y]: afraid that this might be the end, or that you might die, or that something worse
Speaker:[MAE Y]: might happen. So hence, you're going to resist, right? But the thing that's so different
Speaker:[MAE Y]: about birth is that you know that life is coming through.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So, but that's actually what I want to.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I actually want to place that on other pain too, because even when you have other
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pain, like in my case with my grief, because I lost my husband just five months
Speaker:[MAE Y]: after having that home birth. Okay,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh my word.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and the waves of grief and the pain of grief was super intense. But I knew better
Speaker:[MAE Y]: than to resist it. I had no idea how my life would be or what it would look like
Speaker:[MAE Y]: after that loss. But I knew that it wasn't the end. Not for me, not for my kids.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And I would even argue not even for my husband, right? Because energy just changes
Speaker:[MAE Y]: form. Okay.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Absolutely.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But um, so as the pain intensifies, instead of the human conditioned response,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: which is to cringe to resist the tense up, if you could just use your conscious awareness
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to This is something beyond me. This is something beyond my knowing. I have no idea
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what the other side of this is gonna look like, but I am humbled. It is not in my
Speaker:[MAE Y]: power to control this phase of my life and I release, I surrender. And you used this
Speaker:[MAE Y]: word earlier, you said faith, but if you have that trust in your body, in your baby,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: in your life, and in your future. you know, it's so intangible that I don't know
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what else to call it, but to call it trust, but just a little bit, just enough to
Speaker:[MAE Y]: say, hey, there might be another way. You know, there might be a higher way than
Speaker:[MAE Y]: me just holding up this fort in resistance. And so in the case of my home birth, you know,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the waves will come the waves will come, I would allow. They would come stronger,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: they would come bigger. I would allow bigger. I would allow bigger, release bigger.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And then in the final like 40 minutes or so, I wanted to be in the tub, in the warm
Speaker:[MAE Y]: tub. So my husband had prepared this warm tub for me. We moved into the bathroom
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and I was accompanied by my midwife and my husband. And this was like 6 a.m. ish
Speaker:[MAE Y]: on a Wednesday morning. And in the corner of my mind, I'm like, oh, my eight-year-old
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is going to wake up any minute now because he's going to think it's a regular
Speaker:[MAE Y]: school day. But I'm in the bathtub and just moving like one of those wild animals,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: just going, hmm. And using words like open and release to guide my mind that way,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: because if I use those words, the body would follow. If my mind can go there, the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: body would follow. Sure enough, the little one wakes up. He runs into the dining
Speaker:[MAE Y]: room, the living room, nobody's there, like oddly quiet in the kitchen. Finally, he
Speaker:[MAE Y]: finds his way into the bathroom. We're like having a freaking birthday party there.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And he's like, mom,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: It is a birthday party.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what are you doing? Yes, we are. That's what I mean. So he goes, mom, what are you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: doing? I'm like, I'm kind of in the middle of something. Well, honey, would you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: mind waiting in the living room? I said, I'm fine, I'm doing just fine, but I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: just need you to wait in the living room. I just, just in case something went wrong,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I didn't want the risk of him witnessing something that, you know, we wouldn't be able
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to avoid. So I asked him to wait in the living room. And he goes, okay. And I hear
Speaker:[MAE Y]: him trotting down the hall. And at some point he stops and he hollers. He goes,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: wait, but mom, do I have to go to school today? And I holler back at him. from the tub.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: This is just like minutes before giving birth. No, honey. And he goes, why? And I say,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: cause your brother's gonna be born today.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Thanks for watching!
Speaker:[MAE Y]: And so I hear him trot down the hall. And just moments after that, with a pop and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a gush that my water broke in the tub. And I had told my midwife that it was a dream
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of mine to take up the baby with my own hands. if at all possible, that I wanted
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my hand to be the first that his head would touch in this world, you know? And I,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you know, because the water allowed for movement on my body. And then as he started
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to crown, my midwife said, Mason, you know, you should reach with your hand, you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: can feel his head. And so I reach with my left hand and I touched this gentle version,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: fluffy hair, just swaying underwater and it gave me so much power like oh the end
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was near and I just needed like one more push to get his shoulder and his body
Speaker:[MAE Y]: out But the thing I want to tell you is that you know how I said that my birth was
Speaker:[MAE Y]: almost all pain-free
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mm-hmm.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Here's how I know here's how I know because right in that final moment before So
Speaker:[MAE Y]: like before his head was about to crown, like as his head is descending into the birth
Speaker:[MAE Y]: canal. I was aware that I had the thought, ouch, enter my mind for the first time. I was
Speaker:[MAE Y]: so hyper aware that I caught the thought ouch, enter my mind for the first time. And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: then that's when I thought, oh, heck, it's been nine hours and I had to thought ouch
Speaker:[MAE Y]: this whole time. Because the whole time with the with the heightening contractions,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I had allowed bigger, I had allowed bigger, I had allowed bigger, I hadn't even
Speaker:[MAE Y]: thought ouch, until like the final moment. So when the thought ouch entered, I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was very aware that the thought ouch had nothing to do with the experience, the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: sensation, the sensation is
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mmm.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: not ouch. The sensation is purely pressure, the sensation is just pure experience, pure
Speaker:[MAE Y]: sensation. The thought is a label that follows the experience. And I was aware enough
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to know the difference.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Gosh,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: when
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: is
Speaker:[MAE Y]: the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: so
Speaker:[MAE Y]: thought
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: potent.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: out. Yeah, so when the thought out enter, excuse me for a second. Sorry, excuse
Speaker:[MAE Y]: me for a second.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Sorry, I had my cord had unplugged. Okay, so when the thought, ouch, entered my
Speaker:[MAE Y]: mind, I almost like swiped left on it. I didn't take it so seriously, like, oh
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my God, this is so painful, and this is gonna be so bad. That wasn't
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: You
Speaker:[MAE Y]: my
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: didn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: reaction.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: choose
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I was like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it. You're
Speaker:[MAE Y]: oh.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like, nope, not going
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to go
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: with that.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: was like, Oh, exactly. And that's the thing is that you can choose your thoughts,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you can choose which to engage with and which not to engage with. And in this case,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I thought, well, I aware that the thought ouch came up in my psyche, and then I just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: let it flow by. And then and that was the only moment in the nine hours and however
Speaker:[MAE Y]: many minutes that I thought ouch. So nothing else was, that's why I say it was almost
Speaker:[MAE Y]: all pain free.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that is such a crew. And this is all so beautifully described. And I get
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like, oh, I just love hearing birth stories. But it's so beautifully described
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: through birth. But that same present time awareness of seeing the word,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like seeing the word and not feeling into the word. You were able to disassociate
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: what the typical meaning of the word is and to not actually have to allow it
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be present. in your body and not embody it. Like it's like you had the opportunity
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to choose and the awareness of it to choose to, I'm going to feel the ouch
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: or I'm not going to feel the ouch or I'm gonna allow myself to believe that
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that's an ouch of the way I'm programmed to believe what an ouch is. You
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: decided, like I love how you said, you swiped left, you were like essentially
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: swiping left with it. Like I choose not. And that's like part of
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: the beauty of meditation, right? Is like Thank
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: goodness we don't act on all of our thoughts in our head because we would
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: have all killed ourselves by now. Now granted we would be like
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yes.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: reincarnate, you know, but go on. So let's go with
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Well,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and that's the thing though, because I think when I talk about the clear recognition
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of a thought and having the reins in my hands in a way that I could choose if I
Speaker:[MAE Y]: wanna swipe left or not, to have that distance between myself and my thoughts, myself
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and my mental activities, I think a lot of people would be like, well, wait, I'm
Speaker:[MAE Y]: always so... involved with my thoughts. I am my thoughts. Like, how do I even get there?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: But that's what I mean. I think that's what you mean. And, you know, when these teachers
Speaker:[MAE Y]: teach us to live in our hearts, to be in our hearts, to get out of your mind,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to get out of your head and observe your thoughts, when you're observing your thoughts,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you're not in your mind, you're not in your head. And metaphorically speaking,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that's what they mean when you're in heart consciousness.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yes, yes, gosh, like that, that right there. And gosh, we could go on for so
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: many more hours with this, but I want to try to like wrap this up with this
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: part here, at least, on how can, what would you say is the ease of all the years
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of your training, but what can you encourage people who don't? have those
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: years of training like you have or the knowledge that you have, what can they
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: start doing today to start disassociating from those thoughts that come into the head
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: all the time and start choosing no or swiping left? What would you say
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: would be an actionable, tangible thing? that people can start doing now and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: then expanding upon it, obviously, because this is the practice. Again, it's the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: practice and journey of life, right? It's not something you're like, you're
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: gonna accomplish one time and you've got a certificate and you never have
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to work on it again. But what would be the best way for somebody to get started
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: with doing this and then using that like... that associative law of attraction
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of like, oh, witnessing it happen and then doing it again and doing it again
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and creating that ripple effect in all areas of their life.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I know
Speaker:[MAE Y]: want
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it's
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: a really
Speaker:[MAE Y]: encourage
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: tough question
Speaker:[MAE Y]: people.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to answer. Ha ha ha.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Well, but I actually also teach a lot of this every week because I'm still teaching
Speaker:[MAE Y]: meditation and mindfulness and stuff. And unfortunately, my classes are all in Japanese
Speaker:[MAE Y]: now. So I don't. I mean, eventually I should do this in English too. But I like
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to encourage my friends and those in the community to create space. It requires
Speaker:[MAE Y]: slowing down. and intentional slowing down. And like you said, shifting from the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: doing, like the to-do list mindset to being. Now, to get a head start on this,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I highly recommend that you just take the beginning moments of your day. So when
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you wake up in the morning, whether you use an alarm clock or you wake up naturally
Speaker:[MAE Y]: or whatever, just say to yourself, 20 minutes of your day. I'm not gonna jump
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to my phone. I'm not gonna open my emails. I'm not gonna play the music. I'm not
Speaker:[MAE Y]: gonna engage in my thoughts. I'm not gonna pick up the things that I was worried
Speaker:[MAE Y]: about last night. I'm just gonna be the gentle observer. I'm just gonna watch.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I'm just gonna watch, just observe. And that's the hardest part about Um. practicing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: meditation is that it's like a non-doing. No one can teach you to not do anything, right?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It's like, all you can do is just be. So it's almost like a negation of everything
Speaker:[MAE Y]: that school ever taught you to do, you know, or everything that society ever taught
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you to do. Cause school, society, your parents, everyone teaches you to like get shit
Speaker:[MAE Y]: done, really.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yep,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: You know, it's like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: yep.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: don't just hang out and do nothing. Um, fill in your schedule, fill in your time
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and like accomplish something. But meditation is like the opposite. It's just
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to allow yourself to be as you are and observe that. Observe the space.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Yeah. And it's so incredibly hard, even knowing what I know and I can't
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: help but wanna go right into checking my inbox, clearing through my inbox,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like relieving this pressure, that self-induced that I'm putting on myself.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And I'm like, I just gotta relieve that pressure, but then guess what? It builds
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: right back up again because my body's addicted to it. And then I just have
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to relieve it over here. And then instead of just taking the pause, the
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: conscious pause for even just five minutes, right? Then yes, 20 minutes or
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: however long you could do to expand upon that. So
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: gosh, and it's a powerful thing. And I would say, or I would ask. in, it's almost
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like a doing question, in the act of being and in the pausing, would you
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: say, would you recommend somebody to build up? Like say, start with just five
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: minutes. So that way they don't feel the pressure of like, uh, and then continue,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: like maybe giving themselves a little more time and then. And then like,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: is there a particular, here's another thing. Is there a particular type of
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: breath work that you, maybe you would say, do this and association with a breathing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: of inhaling for four and exhaling for four? Like maybe pairing that at the same
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: time. So, cause the act of the breathing and the focusing on the breathing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: can remove your mind from all those thoughts that are coming in, right? Cause
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: then now you're just focusing on the breath. So would that be a good pairing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Right.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to do at that same time?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, the great thing about using your breath is that you never lose it. You always
Speaker:[MAE Y]: have it with you anywhere you go at whatever hour, no matter how messed up you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: are, right? So it's, it's a great tangible tool that you can get a hold of. Um, when you
Speaker:[MAE Y]: feel out of balance, you can use it immediately and it'll help you immediately.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It's kind of like if you were learning to walk and you needed to hold onto a handrail.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: to help you along your way. You can just count your breath and you can go inhale
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and exhale. Choose a number that's comfortable for you. Like four or five or six
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is usually a good amount of length for most people. If it feels long for you,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: make it shorter. If it feels short for you, make it a little longer. And it will
Speaker:[MAE Y]: probably depend on your day if you're a bad observant. But this equanimous breathing
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is something that can assist you throughout life. Um, and you know, the thing is consciousness
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is everywhere at all times omnipresent and therefore it doesn't.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It doesn't matter. It doesn't care. It doesn't choose from which door or window
Speaker:[MAE Y]: you enter its grace. You know, if you want to go in through the window of breathwork,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: great. If you want to start with yoga, great. If you want to start with meditation,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if you want to start with a silent practice, if you want to start, you know, taking
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pottery classes, and it helps you focus anything, anything that gives you that spaciousness
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of mind. So consciousness doesn't mind. Enter through the love of your heart. You know,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: if making pottery is your thing, enter through there. If riding horses is your thing,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: enter through there. If hugging your kids is your thing, you know, hug them. Just,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it's
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: or a walk
Speaker:[MAE Y]: what
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: in
Speaker:[MAE Y]: calls
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: nature.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: your heart. Walk in nature, like, yeah. But like you said, that our mind, when our
Speaker:[MAE Y]: mind pushes us to do do, you know, to like get shit done. It's like you're not
Speaker:[MAE Y]: allowing yourself to be because you require more doing, you know? Yeah, it is really
Speaker:[MAE Y]: this allowance of allowing more space, allowing more time, allowing more grace. So
Speaker:[MAE Y]: whatever calls your heart.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Mmm. Gosh, this has been so beautiful. And I just want to keep going on. So I'm assuming,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: are you open to continuing this on? Because I know our listeners are going
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: to be like, oh, we've been like, we might be lingering a little bit right here.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I want to hear more. Where can they hear
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Absolutely!
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: more of you? Can they hear more of you here? Sounds like a yes. But where can
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: they hear more of you? Where's a good place for them to find
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Of course.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Yeah, I would love it if you can find me on Instagram. My Instagram handle is M-A-E-Y-O-S-H-I-K-A-W-A,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: where I try to post bilingually for the most part. And we spoke a lot about yoga
Speaker:[MAE Y]: and meditation today. My other love is writing. So I've recently signed with a
Speaker:[MAE Y]: New York literary agency. towards the publication of my first book in English, which
Speaker:[MAE Y]: is a memoir, which dives into a lot of the stuff that we spoke about today. The
Speaker:[MAE Y]: working title is Kizuki, which is the Japanese word for realization or epiphany,
Speaker:[MAE Y]: something that you were formerly unaware of, that you realized. And once you realize
Speaker:[MAE Y]: something, you can't unrealize it.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Isn't
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: that
Speaker:[MAE Y]: it
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: the
Speaker:[MAE Y]: works
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: truth?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: through my experience. Yes, it works through my experience of... grief and also
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pregnancy and child rearing and how everything I need to know about coping with
Speaker:[MAE Y]: pain in life I learned through birthing my children, right? But it's really a story
Speaker:[MAE Y]: of the metamorphosis of my identity as I've gone through these life experiences.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So I would say it's going to be like another year or so before the book is out and
Speaker:[MAE Y]: started, but please find me on Instagram and also my flagship website is maey.live.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: So you can learn more about my book there as well.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, perfect. So I was just going to ask you to spell out your book again, because
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I want to like lock in that word. So what is, what is the word again?
Speaker:[MAE Y]: It's called Kizuki, K-I-Z-U-K-I. And you can find that on my website too. I have
Speaker:[MAE Y]: a page that's dedicated to my book, so you can learn more about it there.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Oh, that's so exciting. There's without a doubt people, I know I'm going to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: be following it. I'm going to want to know when the book comes out. I just,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: my last podcast I did was with another one that was putting her book out and
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it's a memoir in relation to child rearing and everything else too.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Mm-hmm.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: And this is just beautiful work that you women are putting out here, doing
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: wonderful things, having gone through, yes, life and experiences, but coming
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: out on the other side and wanting to share that with others. So thank you so
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: much for the work that you do. Thank you so much for. you know, being vulnerable,
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: putting yourself out there, and then continuing to spread that message to empower
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: and inspire other people to find that space. Find that space.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Oh, Dr. Natalie, it's been such a joy. I'm so grateful to have connected with you.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: I'm so grateful for your audience. And I can't wait till we get to talk again.
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: Me either. Oh my gosh. You have a blessed rest of your day. And yes, until
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: next time, everyone just find out where we'll have it in the show notes to
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: you know where to find her where we can follow up with her and definitely keep
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: her on her as she gets ready to bring out this, bring out this book that
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: I know is going to be so exciting to talk about and be exciting to read when
Speaker:[Dr. Natalie]: it comes out. So you have a wonderful day and until next time.
Speaker:[MAE Y]: Thank you so much.
